tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6498413430541424627.post4289605618639643332..comments2023-11-29T01:47:52.439-07:00Comments on clarity2010: More Lessons UnlearnedRelax Maxhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01051381168322495999noreply@blogger.comBlogger17125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6498413430541424627.post-85585867345441918742011-04-28T12:44:09.431-06:002011-04-28T12:44:09.431-06:00@Stephanie Barr - Well, if we attacked Iraq for it...@Stephanie Barr - Well, if we attacked Iraq for it's oil like everyone says, then we sure got screwed, eh? I mean we didn't take any after spending all that money. Only kept buying it from them like everybody else. Of course, maybe we seized the fields and pumped it dry like all the bush haters said, and I just didn't notice the price at the pumps plummeting. :) So give me a real factual example that doesn't just tell me what you have always suspected. I still say nobody attacks just to give employment to its corporations. Am I Pollyanna? Now, attacking to get natural resources, true. But it doesn't look like we did. I mean, it's been 8 or 9 years already. When do we get all that oil we came for???? Sadly, it looks like we attacked bercause Sadaam wouldn't let us inspect openly. And then, for some unfathomable reason, we stayed on after that.Relax Maxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01051381168322495999noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6498413430541424627.post-4384363129803742252011-04-28T10:52:50.619-06:002011-04-28T10:52:50.619-06:00Actually I have a new edition of the book with an ...Actually I have a new edition of the book with an afterword by the author. What I find interesting is I was told about the book by a friend at NASA who was under the impression the book was real. Further, (and it upsets me greatly) that many times I have gotten into the discussion with people who are prowar for its economic benefits. My two sentence response is we could easily overfund many other goals (i.e. the space program) and get many more economic benefits other than building more bombs and guns. Of course I am about to up a movie "Charlie Wilson's War", but we can spend billions to fight a war for years, but were unwilling to build schools in the 1990's. Actually, now I rambling but we were also willing to give the taliban billions if they "promised" not to grow heroin. Insanity. Wish I had more time...rocketsciencesensehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14582306180926474518noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6498413430541424627.post-86456662274002299352011-04-25T08:53:49.066-06:002011-04-25T08:53:49.066-06:00I have not gone away. Just spent a busy weekend. N...I have not gone away. Just spent a busy weekend. Nor am I offended when you disagree with me or I'd be long gone. <br /><br />I believe, and have believed for some time, that the only reason we attacked Iraq post 9-11 is that it has great gobs of oil and had an easy-to-hate even the other Arab leaders disliked given the Islamic infighting. That does not mean I think the gov't was behind 9-11. The two, in my opinion, were entirely unrelated. <br /><br />However, I also realize you might disagree with me. So, since you love history, you can also note the number of times we started wars of conquest for territory against (or quietly supported rebel factions to do the same thing). Such as Texas and Hawaii. <br /><br />Sugar, by the way, was a big driver for both stealing and then refusing to make a state of Hawaii. <br /><br />Note also that just because some wars were started on flimsy excuses to play for power supremacy (like both Korean and Vietnam conflicts) or profit motive, there were others we were involved with because it was just the right thing to do. I believe. <br /><br />History is not an exact science.Stephanie Barrhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17772217449161603561noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6498413430541424627.post-28652854124098810392011-04-24T12:41:10.099-06:002011-04-24T12:41:10.099-06:00@Adullamite - I have been reading that about secur...@Adullamite - I have been reading that about securing the oil too. That seems pretty arrogant for all of us to say that. Seems like the price of oil and petrol keeps going up anyway, even though the flow hasn't been interrupted. Gosh, I'm getting so I just don't believe politicians about anything!Relax Maxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01051381168322495999noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6498413430541424627.post-92225715735377109582011-04-24T12:18:25.621-06:002011-04-24T12:18:25.621-06:00@A. - No, not saying a word. I don't think you...@A. - No, not saying a word. I don't think your Parliament age assortment then was any different than it is now, though. They just seemed old to you because you were young with a protest sign over your shoulder. Face it - age of Parliament or congress makes no difference. They all lose their memories as soon as they are elected. It would be unreasonable for you to ask them to remember the lessons learned in Iraq last week, much less vietnam.<br /><br />You are such an optimist. It will never change. :(Relax Maxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01051381168322495999noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6498413430541424627.post-50955893512055644292011-04-24T11:52:35.903-06:002011-04-24T11:52:35.903-06:00@Stephanie Barr - Please don't go away. :)@Stephanie Barr - Please don't go away. :)Relax Maxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01051381168322495999noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6498413430541424627.post-51092803283156207492011-04-24T11:51:58.838-06:002011-04-24T11:51:58.838-06:00@Stephanie Barr - "There are a number of fac...@Stephanie Barr - "There are a number of factions always agitating for an excuse to interfere..."<br /><br />I don't want to put words in your mouth. So I will just go by what you said above. I agree that we should not interfere in the political business of other countries. For example, since Germany never attacked us, we should never have fought in Europe in WWII. I assume you agree with me that helping our friends is unimportant, and furthering our political philosophy of, say, democracy, is simply imperialism like the commies have said all along, right?<br /><br />Now, I am not arguing with you. I even looked up the word interfere in the dictionary, so as to be sure not to put words in your mouth.Relax Maxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01051381168322495999noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6498413430541424627.post-34671913130875736692011-04-24T11:40:58.292-06:002011-04-24T11:40:58.292-06:00@Stephanie Barr - And now that the Republicans hav...@Stephanie Barr - And now that the Republicans have gotten themselves voted in control of the House, it makes you lose the last vestige of hope that government corruption and unresponsiveness can be corrected by the ballot box, hey?Relax Maxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01051381168322495999noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6498413430541424627.post-78810632496335472762011-04-24T11:37:56.992-06:002011-04-24T11:37:56.992-06:00@Stephanie Barr - I will also admit that I may be ...@Stephanie Barr - I will also admit that I may be incredibly naive. So don't take advantage of me.Relax Maxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01051381168322495999noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6498413430541424627.post-17341321035836193402011-04-24T11:35:34.397-06:002011-04-24T11:35:34.397-06:00@Stephanie Barr - "Usually, one can track it ...@Stephanie Barr - "Usually, one can track it down to some sort of profit or power motive..."<br /><br />Give a specific example of a war that was fought to gain a monetary profit, will you?<br /><br />And please don't start off with "everybody knows..."<br /><br />:)<br /><br />Please understand I am not contesting anyone's contention that people have made money from wars through the ages. I just can't think of any war that was caused by someone (the U.S., I mean, wanting money.Relax Maxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01051381168322495999noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6498413430541424627.post-69373546500111984442011-04-24T11:28:16.559-06:002011-04-24T11:28:16.559-06:00@Jeff King - Can our government do anything correc...@Jeff King - Can our government do anything correctly? Probably. Doubt they will, though. Too many people trying to impress other people. Too many people trying to please too many people.<br /><br />@Rocketscientist - I agree. We should act as if war were simply not an option. What would we do if we couldn't make war? We would have to think of other solutions.<br /><br />The book? It's been around since 1967. The author has admitted it is a hoax and the publisher has admitted they colluded to give the impression it was nonfiction. In order to accept its premise, you have to believe that many people who were high enough up to get government security clearances would betray that oath all at one time and be of one mind to act as all-knowing mentors of the American people to do what was really right for those people. Gods with no conscience, so to speak. Sort of like a poor man's Wikileaks, only the info is bogus. (Well you asked if anyone had an opinion. That's mine. Heh.) That aside, and assuming you read it as satire (the author tried to foist it off as truth for a very long time, not a satirical treatise on the economic aspects of making war) I do think there are some points in the book which were THEORETICALLY valid in 1967's war economy. Worth your $5? No. Nobody is really cynical enough to think we make war and kill off our young simply to further the economic fortunes of, say, Halliburton. Ummmm. Are they? :( :(Relax Maxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01051381168322495999noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6498413430541424627.post-84962646502102442272011-04-20T12:03:22.489-06:002011-04-20T12:03:22.489-06:00I, alongwith several others, have posted already a...I, alongwith several others, have posted already about this. We learned the other day off meetings concerning the need to 'secure Iraq's oil' which took place before any thought of regime change in Iraq. Gosh that surprised us! <br /><br />Libya has oil. Cameron is determined to show he is a strong leader, he is being seen as a woofter in everything else, and along with Sarkozy he sent an airforce he was reducing to drop bombs on Libya. Obama wisely has withdrawn! Cameron, now also the French and Italians, are getting in deeper. The media are beginning to mention Vietnam or Iraq II, and this could be Cameron's Iraq. He thought Gaddafi would fall easily, how wrong he was. I suppose this will at least reverse the armed forces cuts......<br /><br />I wonder how many of the tanks we have destroyed were British made?Adullamitehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15537659871829290071noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6498413430541424627.post-31017192262134051462011-04-20T10:06:01.619-06:002011-04-20T10:06:01.619-06:00When I was young (don't say a word) all the pr...When I was young (don't say a word) all the prime ministers and most of the senior Members of Parliament were in their late 60s or even into their 70s. Hague and Cameron don't even get close to that age group so they aren't going to remember those horrors of Vietnam. Whether older statesmen are any wiser even though they can draw on more experience is debatable of course.<br /><br />You would hope that they could learn from history and from other people's mistakes but I think it's well-established that nobody ever does. It makes you despair sometimes.A.https://www.blogger.com/profile/04709794851766685322noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6498413430541424627.post-57609377960306994422011-04-20T07:16:40.476-06:002011-04-20T07:16:40.476-06:00This post was about the United Kingdom not learnin...This post was about the United Kingdom not learning from the past mistakes of others. I'm sure they won't be alone. Perhaps they can pull it off where the U.S. only got sucked in deeper and deeper. As far as the U.S. goes, well, right now we have a chance to see if Obama is different than Bush, don't we? Is he true to his beliefs? Or was all the Bush bashing just rhetoric. I hope our President can find the strength to sit on his hands until we find out who these people we want to help are. We know they are anti Gaddafi. Is that enough to help them?Relax Maxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01051381168322495999noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6498413430541424627.post-10956245367113938592011-04-20T06:59:30.777-06:002011-04-20T06:59:30.777-06:00It's not the first time (though, technically, ...It's not the first time (though, technically, the article calls out the UK, not the US) we've butted in where we shouldn't. We might here. <br /><br />Sigh. <br /><br />There are a number of factions always agitating for an excuse to interfere. Usually, one can track it down to some sort of profit or power motive, while others, our children and young adults, and taxpayers will end up paying the costs.<br /><br />One serious downside to feeling powerless to stop the obvious excesses and corruption in our own government is that people become more and more convinced they can't stop anything.Stephanie Barrhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17772217449161603561noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6498413430541424627.post-83241948821029160012011-04-20T05:09:43.986-06:002011-04-20T05:09:43.986-06:00I'm saddened by our willingness to supply for ...I'm saddened by our willingness to supply for war as opposed to peace.<br /><br />Has anyone read "The Report from Iron Mountain". I haven't read it yet. It came out in the 1960's, it is a satire, but it talks about the economic case for war. Thoughts?rocketsciencesensehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14582306180926474518noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6498413430541424627.post-44584219148128694172011-04-19T18:52:54.065-06:002011-04-19T18:52:54.065-06:00Good, no... GREAT points—It just might be another ...Good, no... GREAT points—It just might be another Vietnam, can out government do anything correctly?<br /><br />Thx for you support on my blog, I really do appreciate it.Jeff Kinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00667419764890599092noreply@blogger.com