@Descartes - I haven't been to JibJab in a long time. I used to like their stuff!
@Redbeard76 - I can't believe you said you think some people are not worth saving or that we don't need a good National Heath Care Program! But don't you think we deserve MUCH better than this terrible hodge-podge costly bandaid that won''t get the job done and isn't what ANYBODY WITH ANY SENSE wants, that was concocted by ONE MAN behind closed doors? Surely the American people deserve better! WE MUST START OVER AND THIS TIME DO IT IN PUBLIC AND MAKE SURE IT IS DONE RIGHT!
You can HAVE this crappy patchwork money waster if you want it. I want something better. And I think we can do it.
Tell me why you think we should GUT medicare. Tell me why you think we shouldn't cover ALL people. What do you have against quality and all-inclusiveness?
All I want is the best health care program on the planet. Is that too much to ask? Why settle for shit? We have an opportunity to do it right, and we should make sure they do! I say, GREAT coverage and coverage for every single American. I say pay for it with taxes on EVERYONE in proportion to their ability to pay, except those who can't. I know it's cliche, but WE CAN DO BETTER!
Obama will come around. You'll see. He can adjust to the wind direction just like Clinton did.
If you think the monstrosity we have kluged before us thanks to Republican and some Democratic obstructionist is Obama's vision, RM, well, it ain't your brightest thought. And, as bad as it is, I still think it's better than what we have now. Which just goes to show how horrible our current system is.
I absolutely agree we should have the best healthcare system in the world. Do you know what it is? 70% of the nation thinks it should be a single payer system (as do I), but the insurance companies don't. Guess who owns the government (and, believe me, not just one individual)?
Thanks to the Supreme Court, we may soon have no "representatives" that aren't owned by corporations, even if we might have a handful now.
I don't think we can do it, not with so many congressmen in the corporations' pocket, not unless we refuse to listen to their propoganda and stand up for reps that work for us and not them. Sadly, I haven't seen that happen, more's the pity.
There is a bill with a single payer system on it. Why not kick that bugger into place? 'Cause politicians would rather curse the darkness while blacking out the windows.
(I have held onto this for an hour and removed the really vile parts.)
1. Not Obama's? I think you are wrong. Do you think he is pushing it so hard because he doesn't want it? Do you think he has been twisting arms to get it passed and setting deadlines starting back in August because this is not what he would like to see? Are you not able to understand his words when he speaks?
2. It's not possible to have Republican obstructionism. What are you talking about? The Democrats own it all now and don't need to include the Republicans on this or any other bill, and haven't. Just like the Republicans tried to steamroll back before. And the American people are tired of it, from both sides. I really believe they are finally tired of it now. This healthcare bill materialized after Obama was elected. Period. It wasn't written by Republicans. The present form the bill is NOT "thanks to Republican... obstructionists." It is not due to Dem obstructionist either. It is in its present form because of vote-buying and back-room good ole boy "compromises." And the hell with the American people. Well, we'll see. I think the voters, this time, finally, with force them or their replacements to give all Americans a GOOD heath care bill.
3. You saying we should pass this costly crap-patch bill just because it is the lesser of two evils is just asinine. Why should we, when we have a third choice? - make a GOOD bill that does the job! Stop being so quick to compromise for mediocrity and half-assed non-solutions, and stand up for something better!
I called you asinine because you said I wasn't very bright. Down on your level now.
Single-payer system, as in no competition? As in government is the single payer? As in ME and YOU paying the government to use our money to be that single payer? Who the hell are they going to pay? Ain't no doctors going to be working for that wage. No good ones, anyway. Oh, sure, Stephanie. History DEFINITELY shows us how well managed and thrifty the U.S. Government is. Competition is bad, right? Wipe out competition and replace it with bureaucrats who couldn't care less about keeping costs down. Why should they? - They won't go out of business if they do a bad job.
I've always said the government's real job is regulating, and they haven't been doing their job for so long the insurance companies think they can do anything and charge anything. The government should kick some ass, not try to be a big insurance company with no competition.
When are Conservatives and Liberals just going to shut up and start doing what is right for the American people instead of putting their stupid ideologies first? NEVER??
I don't have a clue what you are talking about with the Supreme Court. Congress are the ones being bought and paid for. Need further information on that.
@Stephanie B - Are you talking about the Senate version? Because there's not enough votes in the house to pass the exact same version. It's not the best we can do, anyhow.
I didn't say you were "not too bright" - I said it "wasn't your brightest thought". Which not only isn't a description of you in any way but only a relative judgment of a thing you said against some of the other things you've said. Which is not the same. May I suggest cutting and pasting my objectionable statements in the future. I'm very weary of defending myself against things I never said.
Which means, also, you're in the cellar alone.
Why I said it? You said yourself: "that was concocted by ONE MAN behind closed doors" and you said "It is in its present form because of vote-buying and back-room good ole boy "compromises."" One of those is right (they can't both be) (hint, it's the one that's not "not your brightest"). Supporting something because you think it's better than nothing is not the same as concocting it alone. Which you knew and demonstrated by saying so.
You say that doctors will not accept payment from a single payer system if there were NO OTHER choice? ("Ain't no doctors going to be working for that wage. No good ones, anyway.") Prove it. Show me one country with a single payer system where there was a doctor exodus and a significant percentage of doctors that refuse to be paid by it. If you do, I'll concede the point. (You'll need actual data, not anecdotal, not regurgitated opinion you read somewhere). You'll need both the exodus and the significant percentage or at least a significant percentage (say over 25%). Bring me the data, I'll change my mind. It's not like there aren't plenty of examples out there.
And if you don't think yesterday's balls up by our Supreme Court further aiding and abetting the already outlandish corporate ownership of federal representatives makes the situation worse, I would love to hear your reasoning.
I don't, however, think the current bill is the best people devoted to the US populace can do, not by a long shot. I don't know that it's not the best our corrupt self-serving Congress will do. If they can do that.
It was a straw-man, Max. I'm surprised you fell for it. But thanks for helping deconstruct it for me.
Of course we deserve the best health care available. All Americans, not just those who can afford the best. Whether that's private care or public care, it shouldn't matter. Either way you're going to encounter a bureaucracy. But if the government (I know you're already cringing) can come in and put some muscle on the private companies in helping some sort of reform, then I think it can be a success, whether or not a public option is viable or not. Now I know that sounds a little heavy-handed and laissez-faire and all that, but not kept in check, these companies will dictate, as they already have, who deserves to heal and who doesn't. A sick country is an ineffective and suffering one, and a healthy country is a patriotic one.
I like it, the kind of thing JibJab used to do.
ReplyDeleteRight. Because some people aren't worth saving.
ReplyDelete@Descartes - I haven't been to JibJab in a long time. I used to like their stuff!
ReplyDelete@Redbeard76 - I can't believe you said you think some people are not worth saving or that we don't need a good National Heath Care Program! But don't you think we deserve MUCH better than this terrible hodge-podge costly bandaid that won''t get the job done and isn't what ANYBODY WITH ANY SENSE wants, that was concocted by ONE MAN behind closed doors? Surely the American people deserve better! WE MUST START OVER AND THIS TIME DO IT IN PUBLIC AND MAKE SURE IT IS DONE RIGHT!
You can HAVE this crappy patchwork money waster if you want it. I want something better. And I think we can do it.
Tell me why you think we should GUT medicare. Tell me why you think we shouldn't cover ALL people. What do you have against quality and all-inclusiveness?
All I want is the best health care program on the planet. Is that too much to ask? Why settle for shit? We have an opportunity to do it right, and we should make sure they do! I say, GREAT coverage and coverage for every single American. I say pay for it with taxes on EVERYONE in proportion to their ability to pay, except those who can't. I know it's cliche, but WE CAN DO BETTER!
ReplyDeleteObama will come around. You'll see. He can adjust to the wind direction just like Clinton did.
If you think the monstrosity we have kluged before us thanks to Republican and some Democratic obstructionist is Obama's vision, RM, well, it ain't your brightest thought. And, as bad as it is, I still think it's better than what we have now. Which just goes to show how horrible our current system is.
ReplyDeleteI absolutely agree we should have the best healthcare system in the world. Do you know what it is? 70% of the nation thinks it should be a single payer system (as do I), but the insurance companies don't. Guess who owns the government (and, believe me, not just one individual)?
Thanks to the Supreme Court, we may soon have no "representatives" that aren't owned by corporations, even if we might have a handful now.
I don't think we can do it, not with so many congressmen in the corporations' pocket, not unless we refuse to listen to their propoganda and stand up for reps that work for us and not them. Sadly, I haven't seen that happen, more's the pity.
ReplyDeleteThere is a bill with a single payer system on it. Why not kick that bugger into place? 'Cause politicians would rather curse the darkness while blacking out the windows.
ReplyDeleteI'm sick of the whole lot of 'em.
@Stephanie B -
ReplyDelete(I have held onto this for an hour and removed the really vile parts.)
1. Not Obama's? I think you are wrong. Do you think he is pushing it so hard because he doesn't want it? Do you think he has been twisting arms to get it passed and setting deadlines starting back in August because this is not what he would like to see? Are you not able to understand his words when he speaks?
2. It's not possible to have Republican obstructionism. What are you talking about? The Democrats own it all now and don't need to include the Republicans on this or any other bill, and haven't. Just like the Republicans tried to steamroll back before. And the American people are tired of it, from both sides. I really believe they are finally tired of it now. This healthcare bill materialized after Obama was elected. Period. It wasn't written by Republicans. The present form the bill is NOT "thanks to Republican... obstructionists." It is not due to Dem obstructionist either. It is in its present form because of vote-buying and back-room good ole boy "compromises." And the hell with the American people. Well, we'll see. I think the voters, this time, finally, with force them or their replacements to give all Americans a GOOD heath care bill.
3. You saying we should pass this costly crap-patch bill just because it is the lesser of two evils is just asinine. Why should we, when we have a third choice? - make a GOOD bill that does the job! Stop being so quick to compromise for mediocrity and half-assed non-solutions, and stand up for something better!
I called you asinine because you said I wasn't very bright. Down on your level now.
Single-payer system, as in no competition? As in government is the single payer? As in ME and YOU paying the government to use our money to be that single payer? Who the hell are they going to pay? Ain't no doctors going to be working for that wage. No good ones, anyway. Oh, sure, Stephanie. History DEFINITELY shows us how well managed and thrifty the U.S. Government is. Competition is bad, right? Wipe out competition and replace it with bureaucrats who couldn't care less about keeping costs down. Why should they? - They won't go out of business if they do a bad job.
I've always said the government's real job is regulating, and they haven't been doing their job for so long the insurance companies think they can do anything and charge anything. The government should kick some ass, not try to be a big insurance company with no competition.
When are Conservatives and Liberals just going to shut up and start doing what is right for the American people instead of putting their stupid ideologies first? NEVER??
I don't have a clue what you are talking about with the Supreme Court. Congress are the ones being bought and paid for. Need further information on that.
@Stephanie B - Are you talking about the Senate version? Because there's not enough votes in the house to pass the exact same version. It's not the best we can do, anyhow.
ReplyDeleteI didn't say you were "not too bright" - I said it "wasn't your brightest thought". Which not only isn't a description of you in any way but only a relative judgment of a thing you said against some of the other things you've said. Which is not the same. May I suggest cutting and pasting my objectionable statements in the future. I'm very weary of defending myself against things I never said.
ReplyDeleteWhich means, also, you're in the cellar alone.
Why I said it? You said yourself: "that was concocted by ONE MAN behind closed doors" and you said "It is in its present form because of vote-buying and back-room good ole boy "compromises."" One of those is right (they can't both be) (hint, it's the one that's not "not your brightest"). Supporting something because you think it's better than nothing is not the same as concocting it alone. Which you knew and demonstrated by saying so.
You say that doctors will not accept payment from a single payer system if there were NO OTHER choice? ("Ain't no doctors going to be working for that wage. No good ones, anyway.") Prove it. Show me one country with a single payer system where there was a doctor exodus and a significant percentage of doctors that refuse to be paid by it. If you do, I'll concede the point. (You'll need actual data, not anecdotal, not regurgitated opinion you read somewhere). You'll need both the exodus and the significant percentage or at least a significant percentage (say over 25%). Bring me the data, I'll change my mind. It's not like there aren't plenty of examples out there.
And if you don't think yesterday's balls up by our Supreme Court further aiding and abetting the already outlandish corporate ownership of federal representatives makes the situation worse, I would love to hear your reasoning.
I don't, however, think the current bill is the best people devoted to the US populace can do, not by a long shot. I don't know that it's not the best our corrupt self-serving Congress will do. If they can do that.
ReplyDeleteFor the record, I'm far more furious with the morons in DC than I am you. Even if you're in the cellar. Alone.
ReplyDelete:)
It was a straw-man, Max. I'm surprised you fell for it. But thanks for helping deconstruct it for me.
ReplyDeleteOf course we deserve the best health care available. All Americans, not just those who can afford the best. Whether that's private care or public care, it shouldn't matter. Either way you're going to encounter a bureaucracy. But if the government (I know you're already cringing) can come in and put some muscle on the private companies in helping some sort of reform, then I think it can be a success, whether or not a public option is viable or not. Now I know that sounds a little heavy-handed and laissez-faire and all that, but not kept in check, these companies will dictate, as they already have, who deserves to heal and who doesn't. A sick country is an ineffective and suffering one, and a healthy country is a patriotic one.
OMG, I'm just going to call you "Russ", ok? Because Russ has changed/changes his online name every couple of weeks.
ReplyDeleteI believe this is the third blog of yours that I've started following.
You could have just changed your header and left the address alone.
But nooooooooooooooooooooooo, you have to be all high maintenance and shit.
I'm leaving!